One daily battle of an outsider family in a small town
Sorry I haven’t been around much; I’ve been dealing with some “issues” lately. I have been fighting a headache that started over a week ago and just wouldn’t go away. I knew it was coming from a high amount of stress and strain. One or two things is not that big of a deal but then when it is coming at me from every angle and every turn and I take it adds up and truly - it all is just the same thing with a twist.
I have been a bit mopey about a lack of friendships, the kind outside of my own home, (local or online) and just needing some way to foster a connection with other adults. It is so amazing how isolated I feel. I don’t really have time to talk on the phone (at a decent hour). I don’t have anyone to do anything, no buddies or meet up friends. Online friendships are kind of weird, too. It’s like I came to the game late and everyone already has their buddies and no time for more or new. I’ll find somebody I really have some strong things in common with and it seems to go nowhere. I usually just get no response at all when I try to make contact.
I know I have my hubby and my children, but even my hubby has his life long buds he talks to or chats with or e-mails all the time. I wish I had that. I wish my childhood had not been so isolated. And then I think about our children and my heart breaks into so many pieces for them and how they got ripped away from their good friends in Hattiesburg and how they don’t have any friends here. They made a few friends in school last year, but most of them proved quickly to be pretty outright mean. Mean girls do exist. This year we have made a very strong attempt to be a part of the home school co-op in this town and I am regretting almost every minute of it.
We are not fundamentalist in our beliefs. We don’t believe salvation is based on works. We believe works is a consequence of our faith, the result of our faith and love for God and that Jesus is the only way to heaven is the desire to do right and good things. Faith without works is like a screen door on a submarine. Works is the result of Faith NOT Salvation is the result of works. Because like it or not, without God’s grace and my Faith in Jesus as my Savior it does not matter how good I am, I will never go to heaven when I die.
I Believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and was buried;
He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic (universal) church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen
I do not believe that everything that comes to me in an e-mail is true. I do not believe that everything that I read on the Internet is true. God gave me a brain; God gave me a good brain. I can think for myself and respond accordingly. I admit that I often react instead of respond. I have had my days of standing firm for something that I later learned was not based in all the facts. I have, many times, felt foolish for not knowing all the facts and having to step over to the “other side” of an issue once I knew more facts about the issue at hand. There have been many times that I just quietly slipped over, between some hole in the fence and never spoke about it again until some one noticed. There have been times I shouted from the rooftops about how wrong I was and tried to bring people with me to the “right” side of an issue - rather evangelical in my approach to some things I would say.
Then there are the times when an issue is bigger than me, or my family. Some issues are so big they affect the entire world and I feel so small and wonder what my little ole self could possibly do for that issues. One day, I realized just how much of a victim to that issue my own life had become and I decided to do something about it. I stood strong. I stood firm. I protected those I love and who were too small to protect themselves. I stood my ground like a mother bear whose cubs were about to be eaten alive and whose fear made them feel like they were already being attacked violently.
You know what I hate in this world more than anything? Yes, I used the word hate and I meant it. I don’t mean hate like “I hate broccoli” (actually, I love broccoli, but you get the point). I mean hate with a passion than has at times had me vomiting in anger, a passionate hate. So do you want to know what I hate?
I hate lies and liars. I hate gossip and gossipers. They go together I have learned.
I don’t even like church prayer chains, because all that is is a great big gossip-line. No information ever gets told and “shared” correctly. I could go to the doctor to have an ingrown toenail repaired and come out four hours later dead according to the prayer chain. ARGH!
Forwarded e-mails and chain mails are worse, the forwards about kidnapped children - either never was or they are grandparents by now. That email about the 9-ish year old boy with brain cancer who collects cards - he is an adult now. I am not saying that these people are not worth the forward or the need for help. I just can’t stand the gullible, too-lazy-to-check-the-truth attitude of people when these are forwarded. With the Internet the way it is one quick click of the mouse can send someone right into the heart of the original situation and find the truth - or at least much closer to the truth than they were just seconds before.
I remember when I first heard about the Harry Potter books. Number three had just been put on the shelves. I got a flier on my car windshield from a church about how we needed to ban together to have these books removed from school, store, and library shelves. They were evil and taught witch-craft and yada, yada, yada, and the author was a devil worshipper. I wasn’t so gullible that I fell for this, but I tucked it away in the back of my mind for a later day. The rebel in me said, “Oh, a book seeking to be banned - I must go read it”. The mother in me said, “Our oldest is still too young for these right now, I deal with this later.” The educator in me said, “When the time comes I will read them first and then use them for discussion spring boards.” I can also remember my good friend encouraging me to read them for myself.
One day, our oldest came to us and asked what all the hoopla was about and why couldn’t she read them. We had been fairly firm with not letting her read them, until the questions began. So we ordered the first one. I read it. I read it again. I loved it. I gave it to SmockDaddy who had been asking me to hurry because he had read some reviews and was now chomping at the bits to set his eyes on it himself. He read it. He loved it. We let Mog read it and she love it. I ordered number two and devoured it rather quickly not wanting to share it with SmockDaddy until I was completely done. He finally got his turn, then so did Mog. Number three couldn’t arrive in the mail fast enough for me to get my hands on it. Then, like everyone else we had to wait for number four to arrive in the stores months later.
So what does Harry Potter have to do with my hate of lies, liars, gossip, and gossipers? You mean you haven’t figured it out? Well, I’ll tell you. this home school group is very adamantly opposed to Harry Potter. The churches here teach the youth about how evil the HP series is and pass on all sorts of lies and gossip about the HP series and Rowling (the author). It breaks my heart that these children are being taught not to think for themselves or that the parents are too gullible to think for themselves either.
We have had numerous issues at the co-op with some of this and one family (child) in particular. My son developed an ulcer (now gone) over this one girl and the way she treated him and the things she has said weekly to him. We had a discussion with the parents to try to calm things down, but that didn’t work, they only attacked us saying they had proof that J. K. Rowling was a devil worshipper and had demons living in her house that she talked to and that the spells in the books were real. Well if that’s the case then how come every time I lose my car keys and I point my wand and say “accio keys” they don’t come flying to me. Accio is Latin, not some made up word. Following their train of thought, I guess doctors and lawyers and scientists are all evil and devil worshippers too since they study Latin and use it in their professions. Okay, so maybe lawyers really are. Just kidding.
My point is this, the next time that eight year old brat tells any of my children that we are going to hell because we read Harry Potter and worship the devil I am likely to slap her so hard the cops are going to have to come after me. Alright, not really, but I have to admit I’ve thought about. It’s a weekly battle as we hear it weekly. Summer will be nice - she won’t be around.
My children are begging me not to do co-op next year because of these idiots. They all think they have to pray for us because we have read Harry Potter. They have told my children that Christians don’t listen to rock and roll. They have told my children that Satan was the song leader in heaven before he got thrown out so music that is not from the church is bad. (Have you heard some of the stuff that churches are using these day? It’s bad.)
I think one the saddest parts about all of this is just how much of the Gospel and redemption is told in the Harry Potter books. The story is about good verses evil - good wins. The story is about love verses hate - love wins. The story is about family and friends. The story is about how we must learn to use the gifts we are born with for good, not gain. The story is about salvation and sacrifice and grace and mercy. The story is a good one.
I am going to tell you about my favorite part of the entire series and what I think is the climax and point of the whole thing. I am going to tell you about it as if you have not read the books. Yes, it could be a spoiler, but by now, you probably have heard anyway the gist of the story.
Here is what you need to know for now: Dumbledore is a good guy, the guy in white. Voldemort is a bad guy, the guy in black. Voldemort’s pet is a snake. Harry is a good guy. Fawkes is a Phoenix and a good guy. Fawkes is Dumbledore’s pet. A phoenix is the mythical bird that dies in a flame of fire and is reborn from the ashes, being made new. Please follow the symbolism here. Different kinds of spells produce different colors to project from the wands. The spell of death which is only used by the bad guys produces a jet of green light.
The set up: Voldemort was attacking Harry. Dumbledore came to the rescue. Voldemort and Dumbledore - the two strongest wizards alive are about to battle it out.
There was burst of flame in midair above Dumbledore just as Voldemort reappeared, standing on the plinth in the middle of the pool where so recently the five statues had stood.
‘Look out!’ Harry yelled.
but even as he shouted, another jet of green light flew at Dumbledore from Voldemort’s wand and the snake struck -
Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak and swallowed the jet of green light whole: he burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. At the same moment, Dumbledore brandished his wand in one long, fluid movement — the snake, which had been and instant from sinking its fangs into him, flew high into the air and vanished in a wisp of dark smoke; and the water in the pool rose up and covered Voldemort like a cocoon of molten glass. . . .
He [Dumbledore] did not look at Harry at first, but walked over to the perch beside the door and withdrew, from an inside pocket of his robes, the tiny, ugly, featherless Fawkes, whom he placed gently on the tray of soft ashes beneath the golden post where the full-grown Fawkes usually stood.
Don’t you see it? That is exactly what Christ did for me - he swooped down and swallowed my curse, my death, and my sin to die for me only to rise again defeating death. That death was meant for me!
Here is what I want from my lovely readers today. The truth. Plain and simple, from you.
I want you to tell me if you have read (or let your children read) the Harry Potter series. If you do, tell me your favorite book and your favorite part.
If you do not then tell me why you do not. I am not out to attack you, I want your opinion, seriously. If you have some comment about it’s evilness to make I want you to back it up though. And seriously consider reading this book.
One more thing you have to answer. Do you think of yourself with this issue as being consistent? In other words - do you let your children read Peter Pan and Cinderella? Do you or have you read The Chronicles of Narnia or The Lord of the Rings series. Do you maintain that all stories containing fairies and magic and make-believe are evil?
Help spread the word about this here little post, because next week there will be a surprise based on this post and the contents here in - you know, a bloggy giveaway. But just so you know - it is not a book from the Harry Potter series.
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May 2nd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
My response will be no shock to you. We’ve read all the HP books multiple times. We even read the first 6 books to Susan back when she was nursing for better than half an hour every night before bedtime. We also love Narnia, etc.
Favorite book and part? That’s tough. I like the battle scene in Chamber, the character of Sirius Black, the twisted spying of Snape in Phoenix and Prince, and the good and evil contrast of love and horcruxes, to name a few.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I have read all of the Harry Potter books. They are among my all time favorite books. I will think about it, but I don’t know if it will be possible for me to think of a favorite part.
I love books that are in this genre. I have enjoyed The Golden Compass series (another controversial one), The Narnia Series, The Lord of the Ring Series and many more.
I have known many people that would not give Harry Potter books a chance because of what was being said about them. And the parents wouldn’t even read the books themselves to find out if what was being said was true or not.
As a teacher, when the Harry Potter books were first coming out, I saw children excited to read. More children were reading and enjoying it then I had ever seen before. It was while subbing one day that I was introduced to Harry Potter’s first book. I read part of a chapter out loud before the kids went to lunch. Once I brought the kids to lunch I came back to the room and kept reading. I was hooked that quickly.
I have a 7 year old son. He has seen the Harry Potter movies with me. When he is ready for such a long book, I will certainly let him read any of them. I look forward to that time. I think that will be a good time for me to reread them, so we can talk about it together.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:35 am
I haven’t read any of the HP books (unfortunately, reading sometimes takes a backseat with 4 little tykes underfoot)but I’ve watched most of the movies with our children. Our oldest is almost 6 and will most likely read the series as his reading skills progress. I tend to ignore the fanatics who rant about what is Satanic this week. We go trick-or-treating on Halloween so we’re heading to hell in a handbasket anyway :)
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:36 am
oops, the above comment was from me.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:22 am
I have read all the Harry Potter books twice and thoroughly enjoyed the series. My eight-year-old has read the first book and will probably read the second one after she finishes http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Rider-Cornelia-Funke/dp/0439456959/ref=pd_bbs_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209827361&sr=8-10
We also read Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe outloud when my oldest was 6 and the middle one was 4 and the littlest was 2. They all listened and love the book. We have since listened to the entire Narnia series in Radio Theater by Focus on the Family: http://www.amazon.com/Magicians-Nephew-Radio-Theatre-Chronicles/dp/1589975057/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209827526&sr=1-8
So clearly, we don’t have a problem with fantasy. I know there are families at our church that probably don’t let their kids read HP, but I haven’t heard anyone speak out against it. I am sorry that you are meeting with such judgmental folks. I think it is good for our children to imagine and experience fantastical ideas in an environment where they can discuss with us.
It happens with every generation that there is some “evil” mainstream popular character that Christians ought to avoid. People have villainized the Carebears, the Teletubbies, and many things in-between. I remember my mom being given a book when I was around 12 that was called Terror in the Toybox or something like that. It told about how He-man was casting real spells, and how evil the Carebears and Dungeons and Dragons were. I think at some point we need to educate our children how to discern for themselves between fantasy and reality, good, evil, and how our choices should reflect Jesus in everything we do.
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
I have not read the HP series, but I don’t feel I’m anything at all like the folks you described. I would NEVER encourage my children to put anyone down who chooses to read them, because we just aren’t supposed to act that way as Christians. I’m a pretty simple person and I’ve still got a lot to learn when it comes to doctrine and theology, but the reason I don’t read them (or allow my chilren, who are 11, 5 and 3 to do so) is because of the sorcery and witchcraft elements. I realize that it is fantasy. It’s probably well written fantasy, based on everything I’ve read about it…and I would probably LOVE it, because I used to be a sci-fi and fantasy geek. :) But that doesn’t mean I should read it. I have to listen to what I believe the Bible says about sorcery and witchcraft. For example, Galations 5:16-26 talks about the fruits we bear:
If witchcraft is a sin of the flesh, then I want no part of it, even if it has good elements. It’s for that reason, we don’t watch Disney or half a million other things that include sorcery or witchcraft. Am I extreme in my beliefs? Maybe so, but I’m not going to put you or anyone else down, because that’s not my place. I have to walk in the light that I have been given and I feel that’s just one area I don’t even want to begin to expose my kids to. I don’t want to open any doors for strongholds to come in - there are enough things wrong with me as it is! :)
I’ve been as honest as I know how to be and I have tried to back up my beliefs with Scripture. Hope this is what you were looking for. :)
edited to blockquote, the SmockLady
May 3rd, 2008 at 2:08 pm
MK - yes, I know, but why have you guys not read her number 7? No excuses.
lorimo - aren’t the books soooo much better than the movies?
hollie - I keep forgetting you have 4. You should pop over, let’s throw all 10 children in the backyard and let them fend for themselves. Har har. We’ll let my oldest watch out for them.
Gretchen - I agree. We’ve even been judged for our children knowing about Darwin. I mean, really! How can they speak about creation and the other views if they don’t know the truth about what he said. OH, and you mean the Teletubbies aren’t evil? Great. Now you’re going to tell me the Purple one isn’t gay.
Karen - that is exactly what I am looking for. I am fine with others choosing not to read the books or allow their children to read them. I don’t judge them for that. I get aggravated with the bold faced ignorance in them pressing on us and our children how wrong we are and then passing on the lies and gossip that have spread around the books. Your reasoning is fine. And your consistency is well respected.
I am going to ask my hubby to give a brief explanation of our belief of that particular scripture Karen quoted. I am not tearing down her views or anyone’s beliefs. I greatly respect all the views shared here so far. I want to encourage the continuation of this polite discussion. I have had other e-mails referring to that Scripture and a few others similar. When given that Scripture as a reason for not reading, I am in respect of those who choose not to read for those reasons, but I often find in myself a need/desire to share our interpretation as well. I am asking SmockDaddy to give the breakdown because he is much better at Greek and Hebrew than I and he is the one with the seminary degree. I only get it my osmosis. ;)
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:05 pm
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Just a quick note: the word translated as “witchcraft” or “sorcery” in Galatians 5 [show/hide]<div class="esv"><h2>Galatians 5 <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F48005001-48005026" width="40" height="12" class="audio"><param name="movie" value="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F48005001-48005026" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /></object></h2>
(quoted above) is the word pharmakeia, from whence our words “pharmacy” and “pharmaceutical” are derived. In Paul’s day, there were those who took hallucinogenic drugs as a part of pagan worship, to induce “visions,” just as some groups of Native Americans took mescaline or peyote for the same reason.
<div class="esv-text"><h3>Christ Has Set Us Free</h3>
<p><span class="chapter-num" id="v48005001-1">5:1 </span>For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.</p>
<p class="chapter-first"><span class="verse-num" id="v48005002-1">2 </span>Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005003-1">3 </span>I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005004-1">4 </span>You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f1" id="b1" title="Or 'counted righteous'">[1]</a></span> by the law; you have fallen away from grace. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005005-1">5 </span>For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005006-1">6 </span>For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.</p>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005007-1">7 </span>You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? <span class="verse-num" id="v48005008-1">8 </span>This persuasion is not from him who calls you. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005009-1">9 </span>A little leaven leavens the whole lump. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005010-1">10 </span>I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005011-1">11 </span>But if I, brothers,<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f2" id="b2" title="Or 'brothers and sisters'; also verse 13">[2]</a></span> still preach<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f3" id="b3" title="Greek 'proclaim'">[3]</a></span> circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005012-1">12 </span>I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!</p>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005013-1">13 </span>For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005014-1">14 </span>For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” <span class="verse-num" id="v48005015-1">15 </span>But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.</p>
<h3>Walk by the Spirit</h3>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005016-1">16 </span>But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005017-1">17 </span>For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005018-1">18 </span>But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005019-1">19 </span>Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, <span class="verse-num" id="v48005020-1">20 </span>idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, <span class="verse-num" id="v48005021-1">21 </span>envy,<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f4" id="b4" title="Some manuscripts add 'murder'">[4]</a></span> drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005022-1">22 </span>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, <span class="verse-num" id="v48005023-1">23 </span>gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005024-1">24 </span>And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.</p>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005025-1">25 </span>If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005026-1">26 </span>Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (<a href="http://www.esv.org" class="copyright">ESV</a>)</p>
</div>
<div class="footnotes">
<h3>Footnotes</h3>
<p><span class="footnote"><a href="#b1" id="f1">[1]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:4</span> Or <em>counted righteous</em>
<br />
<span class="footnote"><a href="#b2" id="f2">[2]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:11</span> Or <em>brothers and sisters</em>; also verse 13
<br />
<span class="footnote"><a href="#b3" id="f3">[3]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:11</span> Greek <em>proclaim</em>
<br />
<span class="footnote"><a href="#b4" id="f4">[4]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:21</span> Some manuscripts add <em>murder</em>
</p>
</div>
</div>
Josephus and Philo (who was a contemporary of Paul, BTW) use the term exclusively to describe poisoning, so pharmakeia for them always refers to poisoners. So if I were interpreting this passage I would feel the most responsible interpreting it in one or both of these two ways: those who used/use hallucinogenic drugs (esp. as a part of pagan worship) and those who try to poison someone else.
At any rate, equating pharmakeia in the NT either with modern-day Wicca (nature worship) or with fairy-tale magic (magic wands, fairy godmothers, flying carpets, etc.) is a huge leap, and is an example of eisogesis (reading into the text) rather than exegesis (interpreting the text).
RevJATBs last blog post..Some days living in a small town is a real pain.
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
If she wants to hear the end of the story, she’ll have to learn how to read.
“Always the tone of surprise.” Great line!
MKs last blog post..The Susan
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
If I ever wake up in a world filled with white people in polyester suits singing white gospel music, I’ll know I’m in hell. One of my biggest concerns for the church today is how they’ve substituted believing for works. The test for the true believer they think is not what your faith has caused you to do but what your faith has caused you to believe.
I keep finding myself in you position in every church we go to. It seems like other people have beaten us there and taken all available friendships.
Cancermans last blog post..80’s Songs Go to Youth Group
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
cancerman - as a trained musician and one with a good ear -
- this is my worst nightmare.
Gospel music/spirituals are a genre I want to hear only a black choir sing. I know that was not PC, but I don’t care, because it’s no good unless sung RIGHT. That’s the ONLY culture than can do it RIGHT!
White people trying to sing that genre - STINK!
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Favorite moment (SPOILER if you haven’t read book seven!): When Harry is digging Dobby’s grave, and everything Dumbledore ever taught him about love and self-sacrifice finally sinks in. I think the progression from escaping Malfoy Manor to the decision to rob Gringotts is some of her best writing, blending her courage, self-sacrificial love, and social justice themes together.
Travis Prinzis last blog post..Casting Out the Harry Potter Demons
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
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“Just a quick note: the word translated as “witchcraft” or “sorcery” in Galatians 5 [show/hide]<div class="esv"><h2>Galatians 5 <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F48005001-48005026" width="40" height="12" class="audio"><param name="movie" value="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F48005001-48005026" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /></object></h2>
(quoted above) is the word pharmakeia, from whence our words “pharmacy” and “pharmaceutical” are derived. In Paul’s day, there were those who took hallucinogenic drugs as a part of pagan worship, to induce “visions,” just as some groups of Native Americans took mescaline or peyote for the same reason”
<div class="esv-text"><h3>Christ Has Set Us Free</h3>
<p><span class="chapter-num" id="v48005001-1">5:1 </span>For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.</p>
<p class="chapter-first"><span class="verse-num" id="v48005002-1">2 </span>Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005003-1">3 </span>I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005004-1">4 </span>You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f1" id="b1" title="Or 'counted righteous'">[1]</a></span> by the law; you have fallen away from grace. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005005-1">5 </span>For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005006-1">6 </span>For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.</p>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005007-1">7 </span>You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? <span class="verse-num" id="v48005008-1">8 </span>This persuasion is not from him who calls you. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005009-1">9 </span>A little leaven leavens the whole lump. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005010-1">10 </span>I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005011-1">11 </span>But if I, brothers,<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f2" id="b2" title="Or 'brothers and sisters'; also verse 13">[2]</a></span> still preach<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f3" id="b3" title="Greek 'proclaim'">[3]</a></span> circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005012-1">12 </span>I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!</p>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005013-1">13 </span>For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005014-1">14 </span>For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” <span class="verse-num" id="v48005015-1">15 </span>But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.</p>
<h3>Walk by the Spirit</h3>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005016-1">16 </span>But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005017-1">17 </span>For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005018-1">18 </span>But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005019-1">19 </span>Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, <span class="verse-num" id="v48005020-1">20 </span>idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, <span class="verse-num" id="v48005021-1">21 </span>envy,<span class="footnote"> <a href="#f4" id="b4" title="Some manuscripts add 'murder'">[4]</a></span> drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005022-1">22 </span>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, <span class="verse-num" id="v48005023-1">23 </span>gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005024-1">24 </span>And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.</p>
<p><span class="verse-num" id="v48005025-1">25 </span>If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. <span class="verse-num" id="v48005026-1">26 </span>Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (<a href="http://www.esv.org" class="copyright">ESV</a>)</p>
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<h3>Footnotes</h3>
<p><span class="footnote"><a href="#b1" id="f1">[1]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:4</span> Or <em>counted righteous</em>
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<span class="footnote"><a href="#b2" id="f2">[2]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:11</span> Or <em>brothers and sisters</em>; also verse 13
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<span class="footnote"><a href="#b3" id="f3">[3]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:11</span> Greek <em>proclaim</em>
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<span class="footnote"><a href="#b4" id="f4">[4]</a></span> <span class="footnote-ref">5:21</span> Some manuscripts add <em>murder</em>
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I agree with you - my husband even told me that was not the right passage, because it was too ambiguous. I was trying to think of one that was from the OT and that was the only one I could think of off the top of my head. I looked it up and found Exodus 22:18 [show/hide]<div class="esv"><h2>Exodus 22:18 <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F02022018" width="40" height="12" class="audio"><param name="movie" value="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F02022018" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /></object></h2>
where it says “Thou shalt not suffer a witch (or in some translations, a sorcerer) to live”. I had my husband look the word “witch” up from that passage in his Hebrew dictionary and in the original Hebrew manuscript, the author used the word m’khashepah to describe the person who should be killed. The word means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others - e.g. causing their death or loss of property.
<div class="esv-text"><p><span class="verse-num" id="v02022018-1">18 </span>“You shall not permit a sorceress to live. (<a href="http://www.esv.org" class="copyright">ESV</a>)</p>
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I just can’t get past that. Wondering what your thoughts are on this.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:29 pm
As SmockLady has said, Karen’s consistency is refreshing. That’s one thing we have not seen in this whole business. The same people who tell my children that our whole family is going to hell for reading Harry Potter love The Wizard of Oz because “it’s a classic!” Yeah, a classic with good witches and bad witches. And families in this group who don’t let their kids read Harry but they do let them read the Erec Rex books, which are just ridiculously obvious ripoffs of Harry Potter, specific plot points and all.
RevJATBs last blog post..Some days living in a small town is a real pain.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Thank you, sir. :) There is so much I still don’t understand, but one thing my husband has ingrained in me in the 7 years we have been married (and we tell our kids the very same thing) is that if “one part is bad, then the whole thing is bad”…I’m not saying that we haven’t made mistakes and let things slip into our house, but we try to be very aware, especially in this area.
I am in complete agreement with you on the whole “it’s a classic” line. That’s a HUGE frustration I have with many Christians because I just don’t understand that line of reasoning. Personally, I think it’s a copout.
I cannot imagine people telling you that you’re going to hell for reading those books. If it IS a sin for you to read them, it’s no worse a sin than any they might have hidden in the chambers of their hearts.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I think if we head down the road of saying that if there’s something “bad” in a book, it can’t be allowed, we end up deciding pretty firmly against some stuff that God seemed to have no problem with. Joseph was well-learned in all the Egyptian religion, to the extent that no one batted an eye when he called the cup his “divination” cup. Moses was well-learned in all the Egyptian religion. When Daniel was exiled to Babylon, he became learned in Babylonian religion and culture. All of this would have involved pagan gods and magic. And then there’s Paul quoting pagan philosophers and poets and saying, “This is really about God.”
In other words, even if Harry Potter wasn’t a great series of books written by a Christian woman (which she is) with strong Christian symbolism and themes (which it is), it wouldn’t be a sin for a Christian to read them.
Travis Prinzis last blog post..Casting Out the Harry Potter Demons
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:32 pm
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Karen, RE: Exodus 22:18 [show/hide]<div class="esv"><h2>Exodus 22:18 <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F02022018" width="40" height="12" class="audio"><param name="movie" value="http://www.esvapi.org/assets/play.swf?myUrl=mm%2F02022018" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /></object></h2>
, my Tanakh is at the office, so I can’t really do much with that right now. I’ll pick it up after church tomorrow and have a look.
<div class="esv-text"><p><span class="verse-num" id="v02022018-1">18 </span>“You shall not permit a sorceress to live. (<a href="http://www.esv.org" class="copyright">ESV</a>)</p>
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Your husband has an original Hebrew manuscript? Shouldn’t that be in a museum somewhere? :-)
But I did post a comment elsewhere that goes to the difference between magic in fiction and occultic/demonic activity:
http://www.knowtea.com/?p=418#comment-17574
Travis, it’s so great to have you weighing in here! And on my blog too. Welcome.
RevJATBs last blog post..Some days living in a small town is a real pain.
May 4th, 2008 at 9:30 am
I don’t think they are evil and whatnot. Magical is the word I would use. Fairytales and things of that nature are fun for kids and adults alike!
May 4th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
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That is ’so’ what I was going to say. I think Christians should be much more guarded against doctors’ drugs - which Christians seem to eat like candy. The HP books aren’t about witchcraft anyway.
My boys and I have read all the books and have seen all the movies. My favorite parts are those with Snape. ;-)
Smocklady, sorry I haven’t visited here lately, but I added your site to my Bloglines, and now I will be able to keep up with you. I don’t read that many blogs actually. Your site has a very cool layout. Have a great day!
Carols last blog post..Prince Caspian
May 4th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
About a year ago, we went through similar stuff to what Smocklady is dealing with. A Sunday school teacher of 7 & 8 grade students (including my daughter) made the link that:
Reading HP = practicing witchcraft = blasphemy = going to Hell.
Well, all hell broke loose, and rightfully so. He denied it, but he also has a history of very dogmatic positions and statements, so really wasn’t believed.
During that whole ordeal, one thing I could not help but think was that we do not take on the subject matter of the fiction we read just by reading it. One of my favorite authors is a mystery author named Harlan Coben. His books are impossible to put down. If you like mysteries, I recommend them highly. Anyway, many of his characters are Jewish. I do not become Jewish by reading his books. As mysteries, there are murders which take place in them. I do not become a murderer by reading his books. In HP, there are wizards, and, likewise, I do not become a wizard by reading them. This may seem like a simplistic argument to some, but I think it does hold water.
I used to teach part time at a Christian school, and one day I was being preached at about HP by another employee who believes they are evil. My response to her was that it was too bad that her faith was not strong enough to hold up to a work of fiction. The librarian (also a HP reader) told me she was somewhat surprised by my response to her, but also thought it was well stated.
My kids know reality from fiction, and they know HP is fiction. They are not interested in pursuing a life of witchcraft. Many kids might think that it would be really cool to be able to Accio something, but they also know it will never happen. Give them some credit — they deserve it.
May 4th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Marian-well said
If I let my son read or watch something that has elements in it that I am all concerned about I do several things to ensure that it is a positive situation: first of all I am present, second I keep an open line of communication with him and finally I trust that I have raised him in the best way that I could to be the best person he can be.
I see so many parents going to either extreme: either letting their kids read/watch anything with no supervision or parents having too much control over what they are exposed to.
My son has been exposed to a lot, but I also know what he can handle and we talk A LOT about everything. I suppose I am fortunate to have the time to do that with just one child, but I think I would do the same with more children as well.
another Lori (lorimo)s last blog post..my chair
May 6th, 2008 at 10:28 am
I just want to thank you all for the polite way you have all discussed this issue. Yay, no mud pies got thrown. And for sharing your views on the matter.
May 6th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I found my way here (and I’m glad that I did), through a link from Travis’s site. I fully understand what you are going through, though not because of the same circumstances. When I started reading HP, which sounds like about the same time you did, I did so because of a news story that said Christian parents wanted to ban the books. I was far past being concerned about them for my own children, as my youngest was a senior in high school and my oldest was in college.
But for many years, I’ve been involved with working with children, first as a second grade teacher in the early 70s, then as a volunteer with my own children’s activities at school and with Camp Fire. My Camp Fire leader position turned into a longer involvement through volunteering at day camp, with the last 10 years or so of being in the position of a co-site director. As such, we were responsible for choosing the theme for the week and adding some fun activities to the normal day camp ones. Well, who knew what trouble we would have when we picked Harry Potter as a theme, the summer that “Order of the Phoenix” was released as a book. We had some parent volunteers who withdrew from our week and some who were opposed but stayed anyway (with the result that they had no problem with how we used the HP theme). We had parents from the neighborhood who came into camp mid-way through the week claiming that they objected because they were Christian. Erm, excuse me, but so am I. Same parent, interestingly enough, was the one whose son was telling all kinds of wild tales about what was going on at camp. Clearly her 8 year old had figured out just what his mother’s hot buttons were and was very adept at pushing and controlling them. I couldn’t help feeling that she had a lot more problems ahead of her than anything to do with Harry Potter.
The sad thing was that we had kids who didn’t get to experience the fun of our day camp “house” competitions or the friendship that was the emphasis of the week. The competitions, rather than leading to divisions actually ended up with groups helping other groups in a way they normally didn’t. We set up trivia contests that were more individual where kids could come to Head Camp to try to stump us. (As the one who had read the books the most, I was usually the one fielding the questions.) But all of that was done with the idea that we were not trying to relive the books in any way. To set up the week, we started by saying that Harry Potter was a boy who felt all alone and went to a school, Hogwarts, where he found friends and felt that he belonged. And that’s what day camp is all about–making new friends and belonging.
One of the things that always comes to my mind is that, as a parent, I’ve had much better success with our daughters when I read what they read, watched TV with them, or the movies they wanted to see, or at least listened to the music they wanted to listen to, than I would have had if I had banned any of it. By sharing that experience with them, it made me more credible as a parent. I could point just what it was about MTV that I didn’t find appropriate for my 6 year old to see–or my 9 year old, for that matter. (Think Madonna and “Like a Virgin”, and you’ll get where I was coming from–ugh!) I could tell my children just why I don’t like the Simpsons or South Park. But the result was that we talked and talked a lot, and now that they are in their 20s, we still talk about everything.
Banning anything makes it much more appealing to a child. And when they later decide to check it out for themselves–and make no mistake about it, they will finally decide to read or view whatever it was that was forbidden, they might agree with their parents. But if they don’t, then the parent has lost that credibility that is so essential when the subject of drugs or sex needs to be discussed. No matter how much we try to protect and shelter our children from the world in which we live, at some point, they have to deal with it on their own. Better to let them do it when they are younger and still open to listening to parents’ opinions.
Even now, I have some of the most interesting discussions with my grown daughters about religion, very often begun over a discussion of a book that we’ve both read or a movie we’ve watched.
I must say, however, that I do have great respect for Karen. She is consistent in her beliefs and actions in a way that most people who are against Harry Potter are not. I have no quarrel with that at all. But I do have a question for Karen. At what point in your children’s lives will you relinquish your hold on what they read and see and turn it over to them? I’d caution you to not wait until they are well into their teens. How will you handle it when they go to school, either high school or universtity where the required reading list includes material of which you do not approve? They won’t have had any experience with literature that differs from their religious teachings but will be expected to read it, analyze it, and may find that they are at a definite disadvantage.
I’ve seen too many kids whose parents made all those decisions for them turn into the most rebelious and wildest teens, rather than sticking to their parents’ teachings. Once they were given any kind of freedom they really didn’t know how to handle it. Heartbreaking for the well-meaning parents, and ultimately for the children they sought to protect. So, please, go cautiously. Consider helping your children to live in this world while still understanding that they are to remain apart. It’s a fine and difficult line, but one that is possible with a lot of communication. And it’s that communication with your children that will get all of you through the most difficult and challenging years to come.
Sorry for this incredibly long post. I tend to be long-winded, but not usually this much. (Well, Travis might disagree. *grin*)
Pat
Eeyores last blog post..Death as a theme in Harry Potter
May 6th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
“But I do have a question for Karen. At what point in your children’s lives will you relinquish your hold on what they read and see and turn it over to them? I’d caution you to not wait until they are well into their teens. How will you handle it when they go to school, either high school or universtity where the required reading list includes material of which you do not approve? They won’t have had any experience with literature that differs from their religious teachings but will be expected to read it, analyze it, and may find that they are at a definite disadvantage.”
That is a terrific question and one I myself have prayerfully pondered. My husband and I have discussed this and as our children mature, we will allow them to experience more things because, as you said, when you ban something, it creates a desire that wasn’t there before. But I really feel like it’s my responsibility to get God’s Word so ingrained on their hearts that they won’t have the desire for the things of this world. As far as literature goes (and college), I can’t see how missing out on some HP books are really going to affect them that much. I do understand that there are some great works of literature that contain questionable content…and they will probably read them (they may even choose to read HP, who knows?), but by then, they will be ready and not easily swayed from their beliefs and convictions and can see it for what it is - great writing. We don’t have any specific age that our children have to be in order to graduate to reading and watching movies we aren’t in approval of - that is soley dependent on their attitudes and actions. Again, our strongest desire is to see them grow up in the nurture and admonition of God’s love and not to provoke them to any kind of wrath from this.
Hope that makes some sense and I’ve made my position somewhat clear. :)
May 6th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Karen, it does make sense, and I’m glad that it is something you and your husband are considering already. The years from childhood to young adult will go more quickly than you can imagine. I understand your desire to ingrain God’s Word upon their hearts–it’s what we are all to do as parents.
When I spoke of literature they aren’t reading, I really wasn’t thinking of Harry Potter. I was thinking more along the lines of Shakespeare, Swift, C.S. Lewis, and so forth, all of whom use fantasy images in their writing. But I remember having to read books in a required college class that I actually found very offensive, just as a person, let alone as a Christian. Keep in mind, it was the late 60s, and the class was Survey of Western Civilization. I actually skimmed a “C” in the class and finished very few of the books. The one that I disliked the most was “The Autobiography of Malcom X”, which has drawn wide praise from many. I, however, couldn’t get past HIS blatant racism to get to the part where he reformed. And I think that “Catcher in the Rye” was on the list. As I’d already read it and didn’t like it, I didn’t bother to re-read it. There were others, but I don’t remember what t